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Christianity teaches that believers have the help of a POWER not available to those who do not believe… right? Or at least that we have more POWER than other spiritual disciplines…
Spiritual power… what is that? Do you have it?
Can you know things others don’t? Walk on water? Heal the Sick? Raise the Dead?
Is that what Spiritual Power means?
Your thoughts?
Comment by jcg123 — April 2, 2009 @ 7:02 am
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Can you know things others don’t? Sure, if you read the bible and “others” don’t, you will certainly know “things” that others don’t. It is through reading the word of God in which God speaks to you.
Walk on water? Nope
Heal the sick? Nope
Raise the dead? Nope
“Spiritual Power” - God is in control my friend and we are powerless, but Jesus Christ has defeated the world for us and we have no need to fear what man can do to us. That’s where we get our “power”
Comment by admin — April 2, 2009 @ 11:03 am
Jeff:
I appreciate your defense of the gospel, but believe (confronting in love) you may have “denied the power thereof”! Do you know a verse for this kind of error?
I was not claiming a believer could do anything apart from God, but that we can do more, with Him, than those who do not have Him… Heck, we cannot even breathe apart from Him - so this goes without saying…
Not bragging - No Boasting - just Celebrating the gifts of the spirit. Have you studied these?
No Words of Wisdom?
No Gifts of Knowledge?
No Healing? Not at all?
No Miracles? Not at all?
Gosh - what’s the point of having spiritual power?
Comment by jcg123 — April 3, 2009 @ 2:44 am
Oh I see said the blind man. I misunderstood your definition of spiritual power. I actually thought that you were speaking of power of man apart from God. My bad. In that case you’re right and here are a couple of verses to back it up.
1. I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
2. Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
When you asked if I’d studied the gifts of the spirit, are you referring to the fruits of the spirit? Maybe we’re reading from a different bible. Which version do you study?
Comment by admin — April 3, 2009 @ 6:17 am
Jeff:
Thanks for continuing the conversation. You said…
“Maybe we are reading from a different bible”?
No, I don’t think so - based on the other verses you have quoted.
I Googled “gifts of the spirit” and found the following answer for you. Why don’t you check the verses mentioned and let me know what you think.
Some churches and denominations seem to skip teaching about this material, even though it is obviously New Testament and “for all believers, all time”.
Maybe your church is one of them since the whole idea was new to you? I think it’s very sad when churches do this and only teach part of the bible. Some pastors are actually afraid what would happen if members of their congregation started being spiritual enough to develop their gifts - especially wisdom, teaching, discerning of spirits - and so on. You know, if the pastor is insecure, he can feel very threatened by this kind of being power being used in ‘his’ congregation…
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Gifts of the Spirit - What Are They?
Gifts of the Spirit are special abilities provided by the Holy Spirit to Christians for the purpose of building up the body of Christ. The list of spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10 includes wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, speaking in tongues, and interpretation of tongues. Similar lists appear in Ephesians 4:7-13 and Romans 12:3-8. The gifts of the Spirit are simply God enabling believers to do what He has called us to do. 2 Peter 1:3 says, “His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.” The gifts of the Holy Spirit are part of the “everything we need” to fulfill His purposes for our lives.
Gifts of the Spirit - The Definitions
There is some controversy as to the precise nature of each of the gifts of the Spirit, but here is a list of spiritual gifts and their basic definitions.
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The gift of wisdom seems to be the ability to make decisions and give guidance that is according to God’s will.
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The gift of knowledge is the ability to have an in-depth understanding of a spiritual issue or situation.
The gift of faith is being able to trust God and encourage others to trust God, no matter the circumstances.
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The gift of healing is the miraculous ability to use God’s healing power to restore a person who is sick, injured, or suffering.
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The gift of miracles is being able to perform signs and wonders that give authenticity to God’s Word and the Gospel message.
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The gift of prophecy is being able to proclaim a message from God.
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The gift of discerning spirits is the ability to determine whether or not a message, person, or event is truly from God.
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The gift of tongues is the ability to speak in a foreign language that you do not have knowledge of, in order to communicate with someone who speaks that language.
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The gift of interpreting tongues is the ability to translate the tongues speaking and communicate it back to others in your own language.
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The gift of administration is being able to keep things organized and in accordance with God’s principles.
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The gift of helps is always having the desire and ability to help others, to do whatever it takes to get a task accomplished.
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Gifts of the Spirit - Which One(s) Do I Have?
The Holy Spirit distributes the gifts of the Spirit as He sees fit (1 Corinthians 12:7-11). God does not want us to be ignorant of how He wants us to serve Him. However, it is very easy for us to get caught up in what spiritual gift(s) we have and then only serve God in that area of ministry. That is not how it works. God calls us to obediently serve Him. He will equip us with whatever gifts of the Spirit we need to accomplish the task or tasks He has called us to. Yes, God calls some to be teachers and gives them the gift of teaching, but that does not excuse the person from serving God in other ways as well. Is it beneficial to know what spiritual gift(s) God has given you? Of course, it is. Is it wrong to focus so much on spiritual gifts that we miss other opportunities to serve God? Yes!
There is no magic formula or spiritual gift test that can tell you what gifts of the Spirit you possess. What we need to focus on is serving God. Do you see a need in your church? Do what you can to meet it. Is there a position in a ministry that is vacant? Pray as to whether God would have you fill it. If we seek God’s will and obey His leading, He will always equip us with whatever gifts of the Spirit we need. Spiritual gift tests can be of some value in determining what areas God has especially gifted you. As always, though, place far more emphasis on God’s Word and submitting to the Lord’s leading than you do on the results of a spiritual gift test.
Gifts of the Spirit - What Are the Gifts Used For?
The Apostle Paul indicated that the gifts of the Spirit are equally valid, but not equally valuable. Their value is determined by their worth to the church. In dealing with this matter, he used the analogy of the human body. All members of the body have functions, Paul declared, but some are more important than others (1 Corinthians 12:12-26). The service of each Christian should be in proportion to the gifts which he possesses (1 Corinthians 12-14). All believers, as members of the body of Christ, must be serving together in order for the body to be fully-functional. That is why a church needs pastors, teachers, helpers, servants, administrators, those with great faith, etc. All of the gifts of the Holy Spirit working together are needed to produce the full potential of the church. Since the gifts of the Spirit are gifts of grace, their use must be controlled by the rule of love - the greatest of all the gifts of the Spirit (1 Corinthians 13).
Comment by jcg123 — April 6, 2009 @ 12:10 pm
Excellent! Thank you for taking the time to provide me with such a precise answer. We’re on the same page:-) Just checking you know. You never can be too sure these days. On another post you asked a very difficult question. I’m going to join that conversation and leave this one.
Comment by jcg123 — April 8, 2009 @ 1:32 am
I know that I said that I was leaving this conversation, but I have to tell you this. I haven’t spoken to anyone about this post and all of a sudden my Mother started talking about the same spiritual gifts mentioned in 1st Corinthians. She also asked me if I had studied them, same as you. The Lord’s trying to tell me something.
You said that the idea seemed new to me. No not at all. It’s just that the original post was vague and mentioned walking on water and raising the dead. You have to admit that those two things aren’t mentioned in the bible as being spiritual gifts given to man from God. I admit that I was wrong about spiritual healing. It was a long night, so give me a break.
As for my Pastor, he’s not insecure and he does a fine job.
Don’t get me wrong, if God wants me to walk on water or raise the dead, sure it could happen, after all we’re talking about almighty God, but I don’t believe that God promised us that kind of power. Do you?
Comment by admin — April 8, 2009 @ 5:42 am
Jeff:
Am glad to know our blog is pushing a holy agenda whereby the Lord wants your attention to the Gifts : )
If the Lord is trying to tell you something then that’s a praise! If we get to help, then that is a humbling and treasured experience… : )
You asked for a break over having jumped to a conclusion on a long night? No problem. We offer Grace and Peace in the name of He who brings good news : )
Also, meant no attack on your pastor in particular, and Glad to know you have a fine pastor. Just expressing concern that some pastors are not open to discussions of the Gifts of the Spirit for reasons mentioned.
Now, for your most significant musing and question…
Yes, we agree. If God wanted somebody to walk on water, they would walk on water. This falls under the gift of “Miracles”. This gift is not on display much in civilized societies, perhaps because even Christ could not work in the absence of faith (parable of the child who threw himself into fire). Civilized societies may have too much reliance on science and reason, in many cases, for their to be a lot of faith in miracles. But missionaries working with primitive people report instances of the gift of Miracles more often.
Nevertheless: I hope you will let me make an important point about SPIRITUAL POWER as opposed to PHUYSICAL POWER - as follows; Many teachings in the Bible are “illustrative”. They can be called “Shadows” and “Types”. They both really happened, and also at the same time have allegorical meaning. An allegory is a story that makes a point - and it makes the same point whether it really happened or not. A “Parable” is a form of allegory. Most parables do not have to be an actual story to have meaning. We recognize the truth in them without the need of proof that they happened.
Now, a shadow and type sort of story is one that actually happened, and needed to happen, to have the meaning that it does have. It is MORE than a parable, and may teach a SPIRITUAL REALITY even if not a physical reality.
NO - I don’t walk on water, physically but I understand the meaning of it SPIRITUALLY when I “pass through” or “skim over” an impossible situation
This happens in the same way as a believer may say - I had an experience like Jonah - “I heard a call and fought it, so now I have been eaten by a whale (meaning overcome by somthing large that was sent by God to detain me).
Or how about this: The Lord asked me to step out of my comfort zone, and into something that seemed impossible and fearful. I did well at first, but then started to sink into fear. He reached out his hand and lifted me out of the despair…
John Ortberg wrote a great book, titled, “If You Want To Walk On Water, You Have To Get Out of The Boat”. It follows this same reasoning. I highly recommend it for a good read!
In our own lives, we can live out the truth of walking on water, SPIRITUALLY even if we do not actually walk on water - physically. We can have a moment of great faith and “STEP OUT OF THE BOAT” - even walk a few steps in faith in a situation that might otherwise have been terrifying… Then, our natural human fears take over, and we start to sink. We can fall in, unless the Lord reaches out to save us.
Water, in terms of psychology, represents the unconscious, or the dangerous. All that is buried by water of unconscious thought (a protective mechanism - according to psychologists - and something created by God for a reason) can DROWN A MAN except he be Spiritually powered to walk over it without sinking in.
Can a believer “handle snakes, even being bitten - without dying”. Well, maybe. Yes, but not on command. There is a lot of fakery in this department. And yet, the bible says it has happened, and it is documented even in modern life. Likewise, one whose faith is strong can go into the streets and witness to drug addicts or prostitutes (handle the demons that possess them) without being overcome by those same spirits. Even should the snake of drug addiction bite the believer, it need not kill him (physically nor spiritually) the way it might kill (physically or spiritually) a non-believer.
This is a type of walking on water. This too is spiritual power. Have I answered your question? Do you find this answer acceptable? Helpful in any way? Does it help you see the power of your faith, your own SPIRITUAL MIGHT - made possible by the indwelling Holy Spirit - in a new way?
Comment by sharon62213 — April 8, 2009 @ 4:47 pm
I have Jesus, and i have his spiritual gifts PRAISE GOD!